"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
01/31/2014 at 06:22 • Filed to: None
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"duurtlang" (duurtlang)
01/31/2014 at 06:22 • Filed to: None | 0
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how much will the new Cadillac CTS cost where you live? I'm not as interested in the absolute pricing, it's the pricing compared to the competition that's interesting. They've released the prices in the Netherlands, and a base CTS 2.0T will cost the same as a base BMW 535i. So I guess I won't be seeing any Cadillacs in the near future either.
super6
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 06:40 |
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(If you can get one) UK pricing starts about £26,400 ($43,400): Cheapest 3-series or A4 is £3,000 ($4,900) less. Base 5-series, A6 and XF are all about the same amount more. Add to that, the poor UK reviews, MPG, residuals, and the fact that they will all be lefties, don't expect to see any outside of London
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duurtlang
> super6
01/31/2014 at 07:10 |
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That's quite cheap. Are you sure it's the CTS, not the ATS?
Fred (FreddsterExprs)
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 07:15 |
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The CTS is 10 grand more than a base, naked 5 series.
http://www.cadillaceurope.com/data/brochures…
I bet they will sell less than 500 cars.
Alex87f
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 07:16 |
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In Belgium, the CTS 2.0 RWD starts at 50 800€ (68.8k$).
That's 3 500€ more than a similarly powered BMW 528i, and 4 000€ more than a 525d. Judging by how the Belgian only ever swear by their German premium cars, and the fact that 80% of new cars here are diesel (makes you wonder why this is the European country with the worst air quality....), we won't be seeing any of those Caddies here.
Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 07:22 |
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I have seen my first ATS here in Bulgaria. It is black and it was manual so it it the 2.0T. This is rather surprising, because in my country if you don't have one of the 3 Germans you are considered a mad person and that you don't know shit about cars.
Sadly I can't tell you about pricing, because the importer that sells them is still in the 20th century when it comes to a site and there are no such things as .pdf pricelist or configurators.
A test that Auto Bild did on a 328i and 2.0T ATS showed that on very similiary specced cars, the Caddy is a little bit cheaper.
P.S. I know you asked about the CTS, but I like random rambling.
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duurtlang
> Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa
01/31/2014 at 07:26 |
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Well, the pricing of the ATS is interesting as well. But to keep it simple and because the price of the CTS was just released I only asked about that.
BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> super6
01/31/2014 at 08:05 |
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They're all going to be lefties? Bad mistake. Have you got a source for that?
These two reviews seem to be quite positive: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ca…
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/cadillac/cts/8…
I can't seem to find a genuine test in the UK online.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 08:06 |
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The Cadillac Europe website's got a load of pricing, although the link for UK pricing seems to be borked.
http://www.cadillaceurope.com/en/index.php#/…
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duurtlang
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
01/31/2014 at 08:11 |
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Ah, I see. Here's the UK pricelist (pdf alert). 43k pounds for the base 2.0 with auto box. The BMW 5-series starts at 30k pounds according to bmw.co.uk, 44k pounds gets you a base 535i. So in comparison it's a bit like the Netherlands, the CTS is considerably more expensive than a similar BMW as you can get a 5-series with a much more powerful engine for the same price as the base CTS. So I'd guess you won't be seeing many either.
I do wonder what GM is thinking. When you need to create a name for yourself in a new market you undercut the established competition in price or offer a better product for a similar price.
Considering these prices I wonder what the reactions to the obvious impending market failure of Cadillac in Europe will be. Will some Americans still accuse 'us' of elitism or conservatism?
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super6
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 08:20 |
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You're probably right. To be honest the prices quoted online are all over the place, and the UK price list on the Cadillac Europe website is broken. I tried to be kind and went for the lowest figure I could find on a reputable site. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
When looking, one site gave the base 3L V6 as £40,897 ($67,267); which I discounted because it sounds insane. If you're right (which you probably are), then zero sales for Caddy in the UK. XFR Sportbrake could be had with 5 grand change.
Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 08:22 |
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When the V comes out, there's a strong chance it sells better than the four-pot.
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super6
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 08:22 |
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Well found. See my reply in the other thread. This is me standing corrected.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 08:35 |
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Saying that, the 535i only has 306bhp. It's a bigger engine, but not all that much more power (plus more weight). It sits in-between that and the 245bhp, £35,445 528i (base price).
I wonder how many options the Caddy comes with for that price compared to the BMW.
As an aside, I reckon they should fudge their engine sizes like BMW does. For some reason, 535i sounds like you're getting a lot more for your money than 2.0T, even though in actuality you're only down 34bhp and you're up on fuel economy and weight.
Plus, I've just gone through BMW's configurator and easily got it to £45,420 with, frankly, sod all options*.
I really want Caddy to do well with this car. I'm bored to death with the German stranglehold on the luxury market. A non-diverse car market is a boring one, to my eyes.
*as an aside, good God the colours you can choose from are dull
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super6
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
01/31/2014 at 08:36 |
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I'm now not 100% sure on this either (I'm wrong all over the place today). Early 2012 Autocar has GM saying " we're working on it "; Auto Express in March of last year has " left-hand drive only... no indication that policy will change any time soon ". If the Cadillac Europe website wasn't crap it would be easier though.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 08:41 |
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Just tried Mercedes' configurator and you can't spec a comparable E-Class to the base CTS. All they've got available at the moment is a 211bhp petrol.
If Caddy wants to survive in Europe they need a diesel. It did Jaguar no end of good, and it should do the same for Caddy. They've got a 160bhp 2.0l turbo and a 192bhp 2.0l twin-turbo diesel from the Opel range that they could adapt quite nicely.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> super6
01/31/2014 at 08:55 |
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Agreed with the website being duff. It wouldn't link me to the UK pricing properly.
If they do offer it LHD only it would pretty much kill it in the UK.
Klaus Schmoll
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 09:08 |
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The pricing is one problem. The other one I see is the almost non-existing dealer network. For the whole country of Germany they have only 7 or 8 dealerships. And all this at a time when Alfa has basically left the sedan market and all their former customers are looking for something quirky and NON-germanic. This would have been the perfect time for Caddy to get a real market share (right now, they are always listed among the "others")
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duurtlang
> Klaus Schmoll
01/31/2014 at 09:14 |
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Are those 7 or 8 places the only ones where you can get one? I imagine regular Opel dealers could help out. Maybe turn a few of the larger ones into Cadillac dispensaries, just like they've done with Chevrolet? They should be able service them, theoretically, but considering the absurd pricing I doubt GM is going to invest a lot in mechanic training for regular Opel dealers.
I honestly don't understand why GM isn't undercutting the Germans. I just can't grasp it, it's like they want to fail.
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Klaus Schmoll
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 09:22 |
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On Caddies website these are the only ones listed. Maybe Opel dealers could help out, but without demo cars and such they probably won't be much help either.
Oh and I forgot Saab! Another dead brand with non-germanic saloons whose former customers have to find a new home.
carsandmusic
> duurtlang
01/31/2014 at 09:26 |
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In Germany it's 50k, 528i is 46k and 535 is 52k (all prices for base models). I can't see this marketing strategy work either.
KirkyV
> Klaus Schmoll
01/31/2014 at 09:35 |
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I realise this isn't exactly on topic, but do you think Jaguar would be wise to capitalise on the recently-vacated Saab/Alfa segment with a slightly more down-market car? I'd like to see them try, but I'm not sure they really have the right image for it...